Gerry Lewis:
Hello everyone, I’m Gerry Lewis, and you’re listening to another episode of GLINC Outside the Box. On today’s episode, we’re going to do something a little different. We’re turning the tables on this interview, or should I say we’re turning the mic around where instead of me being the interviewer, I have the pleasure of being the guest today. And that should be fun.
Gerry Lewis:
My team came up with this idea since June is Pride Month and they thought it would be interesting to hear about my personal pride journey along with its lessons and insights I’ve accumulated over the years. Our theme this month is authenticity. And to me, there’s nothing more authentic than having to walk down memory lane to reflect on one’s personal journey so far. To tell you the truth, it’s a little bit nerve-wracking, but let’s get started. Joining me today in the power seat is Nicole Thompson, who is one of our relationship managers here at GLINC. Nicole, welcome. And do you have any idea what you’re in for today?
Nicole Thompson:
Hi Gerry, it’s great to be here. I’m very excited about the opportunity to interview you for a change instead of just quietly sitting in the background of these recordings. And I think the questions we’ve lined up for you today are all encompassing and touch on many different topics. So I hope the audience is going to be just as excited as I am.
Gerry Lewis:
I hope so too. And I think it will be great. I can’t wait to dive in. But maybe we should start with how did we even arrive at doing this podcast? Because you and I always think about who should we interview? What’s the theme for the month? So how did we come up with this? I think it might be interesting for the audience and I promise I will just answer questions for the rest of the interview after you answer this one.
Nicole Thompson:
Absolutely. So when we were first brainstorming on who to interview for this podcast on authenticity, you actually mentioned an incident to me about a time where a client said that you could negatively impact the effectiveness of their project by being a little too gay of a host. And I thought with the theme of pride and being authentic, having you share certain life experiences and insights as an entrepreneur would be a great change of pace for this podcast. So what we did was actually have each of our team members submit a few questions related to work, fun, and personal life. So those are the themes we’ll be focusing on today.
Gerry Lewis:
I think that’s a great setup. And you’re right, that particular moment we’ll talk a little bit more later on the interview about that. And certainly that was the moment I remember, but it’s a moment that is worth talking about a little bit more as well. So let’s get started. Fire away.
Nicole Thompson:
For sure. All right, so let’s jump in and start off with some fun questions. Now, it’s no secret that everyone’s pride experience can be different. What does pride mean to you? And are there any particular events or activities that you celebrate or commemorate during this month?
Gerry Lewis:
I think it means different things to me at different stages of my life. So in my 20s, what I remember most… What pride meant to me in my 20s was the ability to step into a world where I suddenly belonged everywhere I looked. It was an incredible experience at that age to be in this crowd, this sea of people and everywhere I looked, I fit in and I belong. And I think that was something I will never forget. In my 30s, certainly that still sense of belonging was there, but it wasn’t so much that I belonged anymore. It was we belong. That suddenly there was this mass of people and we now have a right to be there and it was being recognized. And I think that’s what I remember in my 30s.
Gerry Lewis:
And in my 40s and certainly into my 50s, it carries a different meaning. Now when I think about pride, I think about the privilege we have to be able to casually just hold hands, talk about it, do whatever it is we want to do to say how proud we are. And that privilege is something that means the most to me now, but I’m also very aware that this privilege is not worldwide. So the meaning that comes to me about pride now is while I feel very privileged to live in Canada and to be able to do all this, I recognize that in the many parts of the world and even many parts of Canada still, they do not have that privilege. And so to me, pride means we’re getting somewhere. We’ve arrived in certain areas, but there’s still a long way to go. There is still shame in many parts of the world.
Gerry Lewis:
Your second question was about what did I do to commemorate? And I sort of answered it, but I think to be fair, that’s how I commemorated pride in the early days with a lot of parties. It really was a lot of fun. From the parties I made great friends, but more so now how I commemorate pride isn’t so much about the parties or the large communities, especially in this COVID environment, but I commemorate it by really thinking about the people who’ve paved the way. The people whose blood, sweat, and tears literally have created this safe space for us to be proud and this great opportunity to live in a country where we’re not afraid to say I’m gay.
Nicole Thompson:
I love that. That was a great answer. Thank you for sharing. And this next question kind of ties into the same theme. What is one of your favorite or most memorable pride experiences?
Gerry Lewis:
Well, anyone who’s ever been to a parade will know that the outfit for pride is critical. So that’s certainly one of my many memories of how I plan what to wear for pride. It was nothing crazy, but it was something that you did think a lot about. But I think the thing that’s most memorable for me, and it goes back to that in my 20s and stepping into something where I felt I belonged, there’s this statistic that says about 10% of the population is gay. And I remember that growing up thinking, that’s not a lot. It’s significant, but it’s not a lot. But I remember when I was in a pride parade in Downtown Toronto and seeing pride parades around the world, the thought to me was, “There’s no way that it’s only 10%. There’s got to be more.”
Gerry Lewis:
So it’s one of these things that always stuck in my head and I’ve always questioned that statistic and how they came up with that number, but it became something that I kind of said to myself a long time ago, it’s not about the numbers, it’s about the fact that we all belong. And I think that is most memorable to me about pride.
Nicole Thompson:
Exactly. And the community that comes with that. So we’re going to switch gears and tackle some more work related questions next.
Gerry Lewis:
Okay.
Nicole Thompson:
How does LGBTQ+ representation and acceptance in the workforce today compare to when you first entered the workforce? Yes, I hadn’t been born just yet.
Gerry Lewis:
In terms of representation and acceptance, it’s a very simple answer. There really wasn’t any. I think it was a sign at the times maybe. You never talked about it. When I started what I would call my career, so that would be in the early to mid ’80s, after university, I would have to say that there really wasn’t representation or acceptance either. In fact, I love the term which we’re using today about bringing your whole self to work. And then in reflection of that period, it certainly was not my whole self 100%. I remember things like you dreaded the office holiday party because you’d be going alone and people would question why you’re going alone, why you weren’t bringing a date and then you figure out, maybe I should bring a date. And then you bring someone who would obviously you bring, in my case, I bring a girl who at least liked to dance so I could dance with them. And that was really it. So you were living two lives, so to speak.
Gerry Lewis:
Moving fast forward now I think that in terms of representation and acceptance, I think the moment that really made a difference in my career was, again, going back to a Christmas party actually. It was in the ’90s and it was with my former partner at the time. And it was his boss who said, not just bring Gerry to the holiday party, but he insisted that I joined the Christmas party. And I think it was that moment, and it was still awkward I have to say now that I think about it. It was still kind of awkward for me, but it was his insistence that I be there. Not just a, “Sure, bring him along.” I think the insistence made a difference. And that goes to what I will talk about later, I guess, in terms of leaders and allies and what they should do because that ultimately made me feel 100%, not just belonging, but welcomed.
Nicole Thompson:
I love that. It gives me the warm fuzzies just hearing that story. And like you said, it’s so important for leaders to be able to set that tone because if you just got a regular acceptance or an invitation, it’d be like, okay, well, everyone’s getting this, but for them to go out of their way to make you feel super comfortable, I think is so important.
Gerry Lewis:
I equate it to this, Nicole. It’s sort of like when you go to a party and you don’t really know a lot of people and you go in there and you kind of feel like, “Oh, where do I go?” And the host comes up to you-
Gerry Lewis:
… feel like, oh, where do I go? And the host comes up to you and really makes you feel welcome. That’s the feeling that you realize, it’s beyond words. You really feel as though you belong there and they want you there. And I think that’s the essence of that moment.
Nicole Thompson:
Now, this is something I touched on in our introduction, but was there a time where you experienced discrimination in the workplace for being gay?
Gerry Lewis:
I think discrimination happens a lot without you even realizing it. I would say for me, for the most part, no, I didn’t experience any overt discrimination. The incident I was sharing with you earlier on was interesting. I’ll share this story with you and then I’ll tell you why I think it was interesting. So it was, as you said, I was referred to a particular individual to do their particular conference as a host. And so the person who referred me was in the room with me along with the ultimate client. So I did my pitch. I gave them some ideas. This is what I want to do. This is what I think we can do. And then it was great. The meeting was great. They were very receptive.
Gerry Lewis:
And then a couple of days later, I heard back from the individual who referred me, who’s happened to be my friend. And she said to me, she goes, “Jerry I’m going to share something with you, and I don’t know how to quite say it.” And I said, “Well, usually when it comes to something like that, it’s best to just say it.” And she says, “Well, after you left the meeting, the client said to her, ‘Good ideas, but don’t you think he’s a little too gay?'” And I thought about that. You know the line, are you a little pregnant? Because there’s no such thing as a little pregnant. You’re either pregnant or you’re not.
Gerry Lewis:
So that was how I received that. I wasn’t angry. Honestly, I wasn’t angry. I wasn’t taken aback. I was just a little surprised. I have to say that when I reflect upon that moment and that time, I am grateful, number one, that she told me. I didn’t do the job, just so you know. I didn’t get it. I was grateful that she told me, but more than that, I was grateful that at the time when this was shared with me, I was at such a point in my career that it did not matter to me. It did not make me question the way I am. Do I need to act differently?
Gerry Lewis:
I was at the point in my career by that point that I thought, you know what? It’s their loss. And so I can’t help, but think that if that was told to me let’s say even five or eight earlier, how I might’ve reacted. When you say, have I ever been discriminated? I would say, categorically, not that I know of. And for the moment that I’ve just explained, I don’t think that, even though it was a sense of discrimination, I did not see it as something that would impact who I was, what I would bring to a project and what I would do.
Nicole Thompson:
I love that. You’re taking a positive spin on this as well. And like you said, it could have impacted you differently, had it been a different point in your career. And my question for that client would be, what does it even mean to be a little too gay? Like what is her definition of what it means to be gay and how you come across, how you express yourself, because there’s so many different ways to express yourself just as a person in general. It’s interesting kind of what stereotypes they might’ve had in their mind as well.
Gerry Lewis:
Can I add a footnote to that?
Nicole Thompson:
Yes.
Gerry Lewis:
Let’s fast forward, I would say probably five to seven years from that moment. And I did a conference. And after the conference, this very client who said I was a little too gay, walked up to me. And she says, “Can I say something?” I said, “Of course. You can say something.” She says, “I finally get what you do and what makes you great.” It was not talking about that moment five or seven years ago, but it was, I think to your question of what does it mean to be a little too gay? I think she, at that time, did not really understand what I could bring to the project, but then when she actually saw me in action, she got it. And I think to me, that was the best validation I could ever ask for beyond, I’m sorry I said that. Or, I didn’t mean it, or whatever the case, that was the best validation. I finally get what makes you great.
Nicole Thompson:
Wow! I did not know that footnote, so that’s really important. It’s good that she came up to you later about that. So moving on to our next question, what more can organizations and leaders do to intentionally advocate for diversity and inclusion? Is there anything organizations and leaders should not be doing?
Gerry Lewis:
I think similar to that situation I share with you about the Christmas holiday party, I think number one, organizations and leaders, really, it’s just to make everyone feel welcomed. A lot of these things that I’m sharing with you, it’s what I call, I don’t know, they’re like the basic rules of humanity, if I could. Make people feel welcomed. Encourage them to succeed.
Gerry Lewis:
One of the things we do when we talk about training, and any type of training or classroom environment, it’s about creating a safe space. Meaning that everyone in that classroom feels free to share their opinion. So safe spaces is a term that we use in training, but safe spaces is also important as an organization to create these safe places or spaces where people feel free to be themselves, to be able to air their opinions and voice what matters.
Gerry Lewis:
So I think for organizations and leaders is the basics of humanity. Treat each other as though you want to be treated. Make people feel welcomed. Encourage their success. Don’t knock people down just because you have the power to. And to create a safe space, so people can be themselves. Being different is great. We’re hearing so much about equity, diversity and inclusion. Being different is being diverse. That’s exactly it. We want you to be different. We don’t want you to be the same as everyone else. But it’s a difference that doesn’t make a difference when it comes to everyone at work. So, being different is and should be encouraged.
Nicole Thompson:
I love that quote. Being different shouldn’t make a difference. And to your point, quickly, about safe spaces, this reminds me of, in some of the gender studies courses I took in university, we had a professor once that said, I can’t guarantee that this classroom and the conversations we’re going to have are going to be a safe space for everyone, because everyone has their own definition of what that could mean. But what I want to encourage everyone to do is do their best to create an accountable space. So be accountable for your actions, be accountable for what you’re saying. At the end of the day, we’re all here to learn and better understand. And that’s why we’re taking this course. So if we can do what we can to create an accountable space, that’s what the goal should be.
Gerry Lewis:
A hundred percent. I totally agree with you.
Nicole Thompson:
And just to reiterate on my second question, do you think there’s anything organizations and leaders should not be doing?
Gerry Lewis:
I think as leaders, we want to do the right thing for our teams, but I think it’s also important that we do things and ask ourselves, what is the intention? If the intention is to really create a safe space and to make people feel welcomed, that’s great. If the intention is to check a box, just to say that, oh yeah, we did it, I would question that action. And if you are creating something for your teams in terms of safe spaces or community of practice, groups of any type, take an interest in them. Don’t just set it up. Don’t just give your endorsement that this is good. Take part in it. Ask people how they feel about it. Listen, I think as a leader, it is really so important to get the pulse of what’s going on. And the best way to get the pulse is to ask and to listen.
Nicole Thompson:
I completely agree. And we’ll touch on that a bit later as well, but for the next question, what is the role of allies today in helping to create more inclusive workplaces?
Gerry Lewis:
Well, Nicole, I thought about this question. And first of all, I think allies are needed in any work situation. We need to support each other. And I think the past 15 months, there is no doubt in my mind that one gesture, one word, one act of kindness can make a profound difference in people’s lives. And I think that if these past 15 months of COVID has not taught us that, then we completely missed the ball on what it means to be there for someone.
Gerry Lewis:
And ally means exactly that. For being there, for standing up with them. I think allies play a huge role. And sometimes, I guess, when we talk about allies and people who maybe want to be allies may not know how to be allies. And I think the how is as simple as that invitation, that insistence of the invitation to bring me along for the holiday Christmas party. That is an ally. I don’t think it takes any more work, but is just-
Gerry Lewis:
… an ally, right? I don’t think it takes any more work, but it’s just making the effort to step up, say something in support of someone whose voice may not be amplified enough.
Nicole Thompson:
Exactly. And I think it just comes down to listening and learning. As long as you have this drive to be truly empathetic and to truly understand someone’s experiences, that’s really all it takes. Do what you can to amplify voices of people actually experiencing that marginalized identity and go from there.
Gerry Lewis:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Nicole Thompson:
So for some people, pride has become diluted and turned into a corporate capitalist endeavor, where companies spend the month of June showing their customers and sponsors that they’re supportive of the LGBTQ+ community by displaying a rainbow logo or flag, but not actually taking action and changing their system or amplifying queer voices. What is your stance on this?
Gerry Lewis:
And this is a personal stance I’m going to share with you. I remember when pride parades in Toronto were small in numbers, in terms of the individual element of the parade. And then, I remember it evolving slowly into more corporate sponsorship. And now, in fact, they are mostly… The last one I went to, I think they were mostly corporate sponsorships from banks to alcohol companies and whatnot.
Gerry Lewis:
And I hear you when you say that… And there is a bit of dilution and there’s a corporate agenda, but I really believe that despite the agenda, anything that’s happening around pride in terms of creating an amplification of the voices of people, I think is a good thing. So yes, I get it, in terms of the dilution. But I think that the benefit of being able to amplify is going to far outweigh. And I think we need to amplify more. And if it takes more corporations to do what it is they want to do, whether it is a check the box or whether it’s a sincere…
Gerry Lewis:
I’d like to think that it’s sincere because we make up a huge part of the workforce. And so, I think they recognize that. And some people just don’t know exactly how to participate other than changing their logo. But I do believe that the intention is right. And the end of the day, it’s about the amplification.
Nicole Thompson:
So I’m going to go a little deeper now and ask you some personal questions about your own journey. For some people in the LGBTQ+ community, the coming out process can either be uneventful or very challenging. If you’re comfortable in sharing this, I’d like to ask, what was your coming out journey like?
Gerry Lewis:
This question, I really had to think about, Nicole. It seemed like so long ago. But when I thought about it, it felt like it was only yesterday. And I remember coming out and I came out to my mum when I was, I think I probably just turned 24 and it’s a lot of emotions around that. And I’m not going to bore you with that. But what was interesting, the coming out journey was quite interesting because I remember telling her on a Saturday evening. And then, I remember on the Monday morning, she left me a note. I think I was working at that time. When I came home, she left me a note and she said, “I’ve made three appointments for you. One is with a doctor. One is with a priest and one is with a psychiatrist.”
Gerry Lewis:
And I can laugh about it now, but at that time, I was obviously furious. And being from a very strict Asian family, Catholic, you wouldn’t say no. So of course, I went to the doctor and the priest. And what was interesting from that was when the doctor asked me why I was there, I said, “Well, my mum sent me here because I’m gay. I told her, and she thinks that I need to talk to you because there might be a problem.” And what he did next is incredible. He says, “Really?” He picked up the phone, he called my mum. He said, “Mrs Lewis, I’m here with Gerald. And he tells me that he told you he’s gay and that you might think it’s a problem.” And here’s what he said next, “Mrs. Lewis, I think the person who might be having a problem with this is you.” Wow. Like I said, when I think about this, it brings me right back.
Gerry Lewis:
The priest was interesting as well, when I told the priest. And this was just at the time when I… This is, again, before your time Nicole. It was when Ben Johnson won his Olympic gold for Canada for… I don’t know what was the race, whether it’s the 100 meter or 200 meter, he was the fastest man in the world. And then, he was stripped of that metal because he tested for drugs afterwards, and they stripped them of the metal. And the priest used that analogy with me. And I couldn’t quite figure it out, why. But he said, “You know what? Ben Johnson is still the fastest man in the world, whether or not they found drugs on him or not. He still is the fastest man in the world. So he is still who he is.” And he used that analogy with me to say, “Gerry, just because you’re a gay… If you still love God, you’re still you. It doesn’t take anything away from you.”
Gerry Lewis:
Anyway, so between the two, Nicole, to cut a long story short, I never even made it to the psychiatrist because I think my mom just kind of gave up. But I don’t blame her at all. And I recall a very important conversation I had with her when she explained to me why she made all these appointments, because in her words she says, because I can’t protect you. I don’t know. You’re about to go through, I don’t know your life. I don’t know what it holds for you. And I don’t feel I can protect you. And I think that’s all parents ever wanted to do, is just to protect their children against anything that they can foresee, might harm them. And I think in this case, my mum just couldn’t see into the future. She didn’t know this life.
Gerry Lewis:
But I’ll end on this note, because coming out is always a very interesting journey for people. And I think they hallmark of my relationship with my mum in terms of me coming out happened probably about a year later. It was a rough, up and down type a year, but it was when I… One of my relationships ended and I was visibly upset that it ended. And I talked to her about it because at that point we were able to talk about it. Although she was still pretty quiet on that front, but she turned to me and she said, “I don’t know how you feel about this in terms of the relationship, but I know one thing.” She says, “Don’t ever think that this relationship ended because you weren’t good enough.”
Gerry Lewis:
And I think that was the moment that I realized, “She doesn’t understand my life, but she felt that she could still contribute to what I was going through.” And I think from that point on really, I think the relationship… And to this day, that relationship is so much better. And actually, it’s a beautiful relationship around that. But at that time, it wasn’t so great. Now, fantastic.
Nicole Thompson:
My goodness, Gerry. When I say that I was getting emotional, I don’t know if you could see that my eyes were almost watering up in that doctor’s response. Incredibly powerful and empowering as a young person just coming out, to have those two people validate your identity and your experience. I’m so glad that they reacted the way they did, because if they didn’t, it could be a completely different story.
Gerry Lewis:
You’re absolutely right. And I think for many, it was a very different story. And so, yeah, I’m very lucky in that way and how it all turned out in the end. I know that my story is in no way comparison to some people real challenge in coming out.
Nicole Thompson:
So we’re going to move on and talk about identity here. And you touched on this earlier, in a sense that identity is about belonging. So right now, identity is a big topic of conversation, especially on certain social media platforms like Instagram, who are introducing the feature to add your pronouns to your social media profiles. How do you identify?
Gerry Lewis:
It’s interesting because I’ve noticed a lot of the identities, certainly in Instagram and a lot of the social media feeds as well. And I’m glad they’re there. I don’t personally feel that need to identify myself in that way, even though I see… I think it’s great that people are, but when you ask me the question, how do I identify, I think of three things.
Gerry Lewis:
I think the first thing is I identify myself as Canadian. I then identify myself as an Asian man. And then maybe, I would identify myself then as gay. And I do it in that order, in the sense that I’m gay, but I’m not defined by being gay. It doesn’t define me. It just so happens I’m gay, just like you’re straight. You’re not defined by being straight. So how I identify myself is really those three layers, in terms of being Canadian, I’m proud of what Canada stands for and what this country has done for myself and the rest of my family. As an Asian, I’m proud of the fact that it’s so instilled into me, the tradition, the culture, the work ethic, the responsibility, all of that from my parents, and I’m proud of that. And then, I’m also proud of being gay. And I think all three intersect, and the three of those create my identity. But I’m not defined by any particular one.
Gerry Lewis:
But I’m not defined by any particular one.
Nicole Thompson:
Exactly. I love what you just said. And looking at intersectionality for me is super important because you can’t separate your gayness from your Asian-ness from being a man. Those all three combine into who you are as a person. Just like for me, let’s say being a mixed person and being a woman, I can’t separate being a female and being a mixed individual. Those are just coming in the same package. So every day when I step out of the house and I interact with people, those experiences from what my identities are is how I take on the day. So I think it’s super important.
Gerry Lewis:
I totally agree, and that’s why I was saying I really like what people are doing in terms of on social media. They’re making a statement about their identity. They’re making it very clear. So just because you’re a female, it doesn’t mean you need to identify as a she. You may want to be identified in a different way. And I think the fact that you are in control of your identity versus society defining you because of what they see, absolutely important.
Nicole Thompson:
Yes. For sure. Taking the power back. So growing up, was there someone in your personal life or in the media who you resonated with or who inspired you to be open about your authentic self?
Gerry Lewis:
I tried to think of individuals who helped me along the way, and honestly, I think there are too many to mention. I liked the phrase there is a reason, a season. Everyone comes into your life for a reason, a season or lifetime. That’s a phrase I like. And I think that that is how I see my journey in terms of being authentic.
Gerry Lewis:
People have come into my life, maybe ever so briefly, but they taught me something. Some people who’ve been in my life for a season, or when I say season, it could be several years, but there’s a reason. And then people who I am together with for a lifetime, my husband Gaetano. So he’s in my life. He’s part of who I am. He’s constantly challenging what I can become. And I think those are the people that really make a different and create authenticity for you.
Gerry Lewis:
So I don’t think it’s any one person. Like there’s so many to mention. There are friends, there are colleagues who’ve helped shape who I am, but I really believe in the phrase that everyone comes into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime. And I think that if you live by that phrase, you will see every interaction as something worthwhile. And even if it’s painful, it’s something you will learn from. And I think even that in itself, it’s very worthwhile.
Gerry Lewis:
So it doesn’t quite answer your question in terms of the who, but I really feel that we are so here learn. We are so much here to learn.
Nicole Thompson:
So as a final closing question, what advice would you give to your younger self?
Gerry Lewis:
If I know my younger self well, I know I would not listen to my own advice. So that’s number one. But if I were able to sit in my younger self… I’ll timestamp this, Nicole, I’ll timestamp it to when I was 19, my first experience going out to the clubs and whatnot, what advice would I give? And I think that I go back to… I’ll do one that’s personal and then one that’s work-related.
Gerry Lewis:
So for the personal one, I would say to me, “Don’t be afraid to step out.” I think so much of my coming out was being so afraid of what other people would think and so afraid of rejection. And I know that this is a common theme for a lot of young people, the fear of rejection, but if I could take that lesson back, I would speak to more people, I would step out more, I would voice my opinion more because I really believe that it’s only when you do that, do you get heard, that you’re seen, and that you’re actually valued. When you stay quiet, nobody’s a mind reader. So I would say to myself, “Speak up, step up, make your voice heard.”
Gerry Lewis:
From a work experience, I would say this is the advice my mom gave me a long time ago, that I still, whether gay or not, this is the work advice I would give myself then is to work harder than anyone else in the room. And I use this one even though it’s not strictly related to being gay, is I believe that excellence is your best weapon against discrimination. They’ll always be people who will discriminate against you, they’ll always be people who don’t like you. Excellence in the things that you do, the work that you do will always shine through for someone. It may not shine through for everyone, but it will shine through for someone, and that’s all that matters.
Gerry Lewis:
In terms of don’t, I go back to the quote that we used for our post earlier this month, is don’t trade your authenticity for approval. We have to be determined not to be defined by other people for their approval. The reality is, as I look back on this journey, and it was a really good reflection piece, all the people that I was so disappointed I didn’t get approval from they’re not even in my lives. They don’t even matter. So authenticity is not about winning their approval, it’s about daring to be different. And I think that that’s, at the end of all this, I think that if you can say, “I dare to be different. I dare to stand out. I’m not afraid of what other people think of me,” I think that is a life worth living and a life well lived.
Nicole Thompson:
Oh, well, thank you so much, Gerry, for all of these inspiring answers and thank you for taking the time to participate in this interview and be vulnerable with us and the team, to even let us ask you some of these personal questions. I know I’ve definitely learned a lot about your journey and experiences and what it took for you to become your current unapologetically authentic self, and I hope others have too.
Gerry Lewis:
Nicole, thank you. And I want to say you did a fantastic job at interviewing me. I can actually retire now. No, I know how much work you put into this. I thank you for putting this together. I thank the team for coming up with these questions. And it’s one of these things that I did say to the team I didn’t want to see the questions ahead, I have to say I did look at it a day or two earlier just to wrap my head around what I wanted to say. But for the most part, I didn’t prepare for these. And I hope they are of some value to people, but I thank you for doing such a wonderful job. I’m sure you probably didn’t get much sleep last night planning for this. I know you, but thank you.
Gerry Lewis:
And I want to thank our listeners. I hope you enjoyed this. I questioned with the team whether or not to even do this or not. So I’m glad we did. And again, I’m Gerry Lewis and you’ve been listening to a GLINC Outside the Box Podcast. Thanks for joining us.
