Gerry:
December always brings out the kid in me because I’m fortunate to have so many great memories of the holidays growing up here in Canada with my family and my friends. Even as I got older and as work-life balance became more of an ongoing quest than a reality, the holiday season still filled me with anticipation as well as the joy of giving. Making a list and checking it twice, if not more, was all part of what has become the gift-giving month, but this year is different for everyone, and for many reasons. This season of giving will feel different. As a communicator, I spend an enormous amount of time crafting and delivering the right message to my audience, whether it’s to clients, employees, or the general public. Today, I want to explore with my guests how we can communicate the needed message to ourselves. We’re going to take an inward lens to the concept of giving.
Gerry:
COVID is beginning to feel like a marathon that has no finish line. We’re tired, but many of us are not sleeping well. We’re trying to stay optimistic and upbeat, but news and the stats is a constant reminder that we’re not okay yet. We’re grateful for many things, but at the same time, we find ourselves struggling with a routine that is mundane and functioning in a haze-like manner some days. Let’s talk about giving the right message to ourselves, giving ourselves the permission to feel the way we’re feeling and how to talk, think, and respond our way through some of the things we’re feeling these days and likely over the holidays.
Gerry:
My first guest is Catherine Osborne, owner of UpShift Coaching, a private life coaching company in Toronto. Her areas of expertise include life, retirement, and wellness coaching. She also has a background in healthcare as an occupational therapist, which brings a holistic view of wellness to her practice and for her clients. Welcome, Catherine, and thanks for joining us today.
Catherine Osborne:
So great to be here, Gerry. You know I always love to work with you.
Gerry:
Thank you. Catherine, it’s a very different type of holiday season upon us. We are seeing a lot of emotions circling around, whether it’s sadness, isolation, loneliness, depression, blahs. I’m just curious, are you seeing and hearing a lot of that in your practice as well?
Catherine Osborne:
For sure, Gerry. I think people are experiencing more than the usual overwhelm and anxiety that they feel at this season. Now, we have the added burden of the pandemic and all that it brings, so we have these new types of anxieties, concerns about our own health and our children’s health and our children’s education and our parents. It’s a lot. I love this idea of giving to ourselves during this season of giving, and for many of us, it’s a bit of a foreign concept to put ourselves first. We tend to be people- pleasers and we’re the ones who do all of the decorating and the cooking and the baking, so our own self-care does tend to get lost in the shuffle, so I would suggest that we try to think about creating or cultivate a self-care state of mind and think of it not as a guilty pleasure, but more as a regular healthy practice.
Gerry:
I really like that, that self-care state of mind. Tell me more about that.
Catherine Osborne:
Well, as a coach, I do see people who are facing constant daily disruptions. The COVID guidelines change constantly, masks on, masks off, lockdown, no lockdown, but there’s so much uncertainty and anxiety in the world today, anxieties about the future and we’re worried about what will happen, so if we want to maintain a healthy state of mind, I suggest that we come back to the present where we stay grounded in the facts rather than speculate about the future. What do I know to be true right now? Well, right now, I’m healthy and I’m safe. We can start thinking about mind-shifting or shifting our negative thoughts to more positive ones.
Catherine Osborne:
When we pay attention to those emotions and our emotions, and this is important, our emotions are real and they are valid and emotions are information, and they tend to point to what we need to pay attention to in our lives, so we need to give ourselves permission to feel them, to feel the feels without any judgment attached to them and explore them, being something like an emotional scientist, so we’re going to look carefully at them and see what they have to tell us rather than an emotional judger. If we’re going to give ourselves that gift, that self-care gift, we can learn a lot by being a mindful observer of our feelings. I would really think that finding a way to move through those emotions as opposed to running away from them or moving on from them is a really great gift we can give ourselves.
Gerry:
A lot of great things you just said there. One of the things that really stood out for me, Catherine, was you need to feel the feels. I think that’s a really, even just that alone, those three words, “feel the feels,” which talks about, to me, that what we are feeling is real. It’s not something that we shouldn’t feel, it’s not something we should push away. I think the biggest challenge for us right now is a lot of people are saying things or their inner voice is saying, “This isn’t me. This isn’t normally like me. This is such a dark side of me. I shouldn’t be like this.” I think it’s that denial that’s almost creating this spiral effect for ourselves, trying to fight it rather than deal with it: This is what I am feeling today and I need to acknowledge that. I am depressed today, but it’s okay. It’s just today, hopefully, if we look at current state, right?
Gerry:
Human nature is such a… We try to be positive with people: “You need to move on, you need something to look forward to, look ahead, it’s going to get better,” and sometimes moving on is not that easy. I like your term, we need to think about moving through what we’re feeling. Tell me a little bit about what do you mean by moving through, and more importantly, how do we move through?
Catherine Osborne:
Okay, so with moving through, I suggest we start with giving ourselves a healthy dose of some self- compassion. When you’re experiencing a negative emotion, I say the first thing you always do is to simply pause, take a breath, and give yourself a moment to reframe this negative thought that you’re feeling. The first step, Gerry, is to simply recognize the emotion or the feeling that you’re having: What am I feeling? It’s not good and it’s not bad. It’s just information. Identifying it, sometimes putting a name on it, but just recognize what it is that you’re feeling. For a lot of people, just stopping and taking a moment to do that, it just never happens. We just start to spiral and we have all these thoughts circling in our head, so give yourself that moment to recognize it.
Catherine Osborne:
Secondly, I would say accept it. Yes, this is happening. This is what I am feeling. It’s not who I am, it’s just what I am feeling right now, and there’s no judgment attached to it. Yes, I am in overwhelm. It’s not good, it’s not bad. This is what it is. The other thing that’s important about accepting it is once you accept it, your mind can stop struggling, and it can perhaps rest a little bit.
Catherine Osborne:
The third thing is to ask yourself, “What is it telling me?” Now, I’ve identified it, but what is it trying to tell me? What is it for? Usually, it’s a question like, “What do I need more of in my life? Or what do I need less of? I have too much of this and not enough of that,” taking a moment and trying to identify what it is that I need right now.
Catherine Osborne:
Finally, is the self-care part about it, and it’s asking yourself, “What actions can I take to improve my thoughts about this?” For example, if you use, because it’s true for everyone and me in particular, at least these days, is overwhelm. I can recognize it and I can identify it as overwhelm. I can accept it. This is true. This is happening to me. What is it telling me? Well, maybe I need to ask for help. Maybe I need to delegate. Maybe I need to set boundaries. Then what actions can I take to improve my thoughts about this? Hey, ask for help. Hey, set some boundaries.
Gerry:
Really, what you mentioned earlier about being an emotional scientist is exactly that: If you think about something that’s clinical as a science, you take the information, is neither good, nor bad, but you’re taking the data, you’re figuring out what the data’s telling you, you’re then figuring out now that you understand what it’s telling you, what do you need to do with this data?
Catherine Osborne: Exactly.
Gerry:
It’s funny, Catherine, last night, my dishwasher was making a weird sound and I was being a scientist. I’m thinking, “Does not normally make this sound. I don’t think this is the right sound.” I did everything to figure out, “Is there a water coming through?” I opened my under my sink to listen to it. I finally figured it out. But I guess what you just described, it’s almost sometimes pulling yourself out of that emotion you’re feeling and being clinical about it: What is it? How do I feel? Be honest with it. What’s it telling me? Very good. That’s your own suggestion of how do we move through it is by almost stepping outside, looking in.
Catherine Osborne: Absolutely.
Gerry:
You also talked about if you acknowledge it and you accepted what we’re feeling, so let’s say, okay, I’m okay with this, I’m feeling it, let’s talk a bit about the practice of self-compassion, another term you mentioned earlier as well. What tips do you have? Now that I know what I’m feeling, what should I do with them?
Catherine Osborne:
Well, when you’re thinking about reframing or trying to regulate your negative thoughts, there are a few things that you can do to help you through that. The first thing that I do is ask people to give themselves the love and kindness that they would give anybody else. As you might know, we all have this inner critic or this voice in our head that tells us all kinds of things, right? It’s always bad: “Oh, you’re not going to get it done,” or “There’s too much to do.” It’s just negative, negative, negative. I would say you don’t ever talk to your friends or your family or anyone you care about in the way that you talk to yourself. I would say, “Hey, let’s let go of that and give yourself the same courtesy and kindness that you would give anybody else.”
Catherine Osborne:
That’s the first thing. There are a couple of other ones. I would say another one that’s really important is maintaining and nurturing important connections in your life. Having good relationships is an absolute superpower. Being in a relationship, even if it’s by Zoom or over the telephone, having good relationships helps you stay happier, healthier, and way more productive, so finding a way to stay connected to people who energize us or who bring positive energy is really, really important in terms of self-care.
Catherine Osborne:
Another thing we can do is to get out of our minds. Let’s lose that self-talk inside, lose the inner critic and get into our bodies more.
Gerry:
What do you mean? What do you mean by getting into your bodies more, then?
Catherine Osborne:
Well, you know how people will say, if you’re in the middle of something, they’ll say like “Breathe, just breathe”?
Gerry:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Catherine Osborne:
If you take a few deep cleansing breaths, it really is surprising how much better that helps. Also, get outside and go for a walk, do some yoga, stretch your body, just move, but get from your mind and into your body. Control what you can. In these days of uncertainty and who knows what’s going to happen next, making sure that you give yourself some daily disciplines or making sure that you establish some kind of a routine so that you have something in a day that you can count on: Whether it’s consistent mealtimes, I walk my dog at the same time of day, or I call my mom at this time of day, fitting exercising, but having some kind of daily routine, because predictability in your life can give you a feeling of being more in control. I think that one’s really a big one, too.
Catherine Osborne:
We talked earlier about how we tend to always go to the negative and our brains are wired to see the negative, so I would say being very super-intentional about finding positive things in your life. It’s so easy to see all of the negative things. For example, you go to see your doctor, your doctor tests your heart and your liver and your lungs and says, “Everything’s great, but you have three pounds to lose,” so who goes home and remembers that their lungs are good and their …? Nobody. All they remember is that one negative thing. It can be 15 great things and one negative thing and that’s what we focus on, so I’m going to ask people to be really intentional about finding things that are positive. It can be anything. It can be enjoying the taste of the chocolate melting in your mouth, or that swishing that red wine around in your mouth, or just sitting and looking out the window and seeing how beautiful the trees look with snow on them, but being intentional about finding things that are positive, pausing and savouring those moments so that you can actually feel the positive impact that they have on you.
Gerry:
Well, first of all, my suggestion is you should change that doctor who told you to lose three pounds.
Catherine Osborne: Thank you, Gerry.
Gerry:
First of all, that is totally within your control, Catherine, and that’s the first thing I would do. But all joking aside, I think this is one of those podcasts, I think, that you want to re-listen to it because it gives you so many good tips that you just gave in that last couple of minutes. I just caught a few. Good relationships, nurture them. I know that sounds so easy, but we’ve all been there where we said, “You know what? Do I want to call them? Oh, I don’t like calling them. It’s not the same as seeing them, so I’m not going to call them.” Call them.
Catherine Osborne: Yes, definitely.
Gerry:
Make the effort, call them. It will make a difference. Another one was just get out there. It’s really about moving. It’s a physical transition from your state of mind. Simply moving, jumping, running up the stairs, going outside, breathing, smelling coffee. It just reframes that set of mind. The one I love the most, it’s really about control what you can, because there’s so much you cannot, but realistically, there are things you can control, and then finally, being intentional. Look for it. Look for the good thing. There was more tips that you gave and I think that there are so many things we can learn from this. Catherine, I really appreciate these tips. Stay with us for the rest of the podcast. But for those of you who are interested in learning more about what Catherine does, in my podcast post, I’ll have her website, but also, here it is again, it’s upshiftcoaching.com. You can learn about everything that she does. She’s great. Thank you for being with us, but stick around, okay?
Catherine Osborne:
Okay, I will.
Gerry:
All right. My second guest today is Meg Blair. Meg is the head of HR for MindBeacon. MindBeacon is a tech-enabled mental health services company that offers a continuum of care for mental health. Their mission is to make mental healthcare more accessible and affordable by reducing barriers so that people can access the kind of treatment they need when and where they need it. Meg is responsible for overall people initiatives at MindBeacon, everything from recruitment to employee engagement and general workplace culture. Meg, I guess it’s fair to say you’re one busy lady these days?
Meg Blair:
I certainly am, Gerry.
Gerry:
It’s great to have you here.
Meg Blair:
Yes, thank you for having me.
Gerry:
Let’s start with just very little bit about, tell me about your area of responsibility. Tell me a little bit about what you do at MindBeacon.
Meg Blair:
Sure. We have 350 employees and contractors all across Canada. My job is to figure out and support how they do their jobs effectively, stay motivated, stay connected, and all of that during a time of exponential growth for us and change in the world. Often, these people never meet in real life, and we’re dealing with a global pandemic.
Gerry:
350 employees. That’s a very big group of people you need to manage in terms of people engagement and whatnot.
Meg Blair: It is, yeah.
Gerry:
Tell me briefly, because I’m going to tell people your website later, but tell me briefly, what are some of the high-level service offerings of MindBeacon?
Meg Blair:
For sure. Our goal, as you said, is to create a continuum of care. We offer many different services to meet people where they are. Whether someone is looking for traditional in-person psychological services, whether that is therapist-guided treatment, or self-guided resources, we offer an entire package that can meet you where you are.
Gerry:
For more information, I have it here. It’s www.mindbeacon.com/ontario, just to get into Ontario, but it’s nationwide, no?
Meg Blair:
It is nationwide.
Gerry:
In terms of, I guess, are you seeing …? Obviously, I would imagine your therapists these days, they’re extremely busy. Tell me about what’s happening there. Tell me about a typical day in the life, if you could.
Meg Blair:
Of a day in the life for our clinicians, because we do have a group of employees that are engineers and shared services and all of that, but for a clinician, if they are working on our guided program, they will get an assessment completed by an individual, they will review that assessment, determine if the MindBeacon-therapist-guided program is appropriate for them, and then they will start to look at different protocols that might be the right fit for that individual, whether it is health anxiety, which is huge right now, depression, trauma, insomnia. Then they’ll start to go through cognitive behavioural therapy techniques with that individual and then continue that asynchronous messaging for up to 12 weeks so that person has a dedicated therapist that is there for them whenever they need it.
Gerry:
This is all digital? This is not face-to-face at all?
Meg Blair:
Correct. We have one area of the business that is in-person, which is now video in-person, but the therapist-guided program is all digital, so you can access the program from your phone, your computer, your tablet, wherever you want to, and your therapist will send you back a message within one to two business days, which is a huge difference than traditional care where you have to book an appointment at least a week in advance and stress the entire time in-between those appointments, but with MindBeacon, you have someone at your fingertips who’s going to get back to you so much faster.
Gerry:
It’s free? This is a free service?
Meg Blair:
It is a free service in Ontario. The Ontario government has fantastically funded our therapist-guided program. The website you mentioned is how people in Ontario can access. Outside of Ontario, there’s a ton of other options. Some employers provide MindBeacon as a benefit. We are reimbursable by many insurance providers across Canada. Then if you fall outside of those categories, it’s also available to individuals at a much-reduced price than traditional in-person treatment.
Gerry:
Amazing. I don’t know if you told me already, and if I have, I apologize, how long has MindBeacon been around?
Meg Blair:
We have been around, our in-person business, since 2002 and launched digital product in 2015.
Gerry:
Great timing, really. It could not have come in at a better time. I would suspect, correct me if I’m wrong, I would suspect that this year is like no other ones between 2015 and 2019, I would imagine, correct?
Meg Blair:
Exponential growth. It’s been wonderful for our business because one of the things that the pandemic has done is really decreased the stigma around mental health, talking about it, and getting support, and so more people are accessing services like ours and others and really getting the help that they need to do the things that you need to do to protect and maintain and solve any mental health problems or concerns that you have.
Gerry:
Meg, first of all, I love the way you talk about it. You’re so passionate about it. You’re also so calm about it, too. I say this because I know personally that I called you a little while ago and you were doing this huge hiring because there was such a demand and I know that your job must be incredibly stressful as well. What was interesting was I did go to the website and a couple of things really jumped out at me. I saw the video, which I love. A couple of things, phrases came out in the video that I really liked. It was individuals talking about what they got out of working with MindBeacon. “Emotional resilience” was a term. I love that because I think that sometimes we’re resilient when it comes to resiliency when it comes to work, resiliency when it comes to getting the job done resiliency in terms of a business. But we don’t think about resiliency in terms of our emotions, like how do we safeguard our emotions. I thought that was really cool.
Gerry:
It talked about how MindBeacon empowers, “empowers us with coping skills to deal with the tough situations.” That, I thought, was really cool, too. Then it also talked about how “It manages my moods, my thoughts, and my feelings.” To what Catherine was talking about earlier, in some cases, the emotional clinician, the emotional scientist isn’t able to self-correct what they’re feeling, they need some help. I think this is exactly where this comes in is working with someone to help me look at this maybe from a clinical perspective or talk it through, so I think that’s amazing.
Gerry:
Tell me a little bit more in terms of what employers should think about today. Looking in as an employer, listening to this, what should I be thinking about in terms of employee engagement or working with people who are suffering with any anxiety right now?
Meg Blair:
Sure. I think as an employer, the first thing I say is, this is really hard. There is no textbook. There is no precedence for how you deal with a global pandemic and it is okay to not be sure what your next move should be and it is okay to reach out to your network and explore different things. Trial and error is so important right now. I would say that’s really important to think about the different kinds of dimensions of wellness of your employees, and that spans from anxiety around health right now, physical and mental health, financial wellness, your family, friends, relationships. All of those things come into play when you’re thinking about wellness, so how do you as an employer help people protect those different dimensions?
Meg Blair:
There’s no one right answer for that. No one-size-fits-all approach. One company might be doing something that’s not the gold standard. Don’t think that you have to be like other people. What you need to do is communicate with your employees and understand what is it for them that is causing stress or strain right now, and then try to deal with that. The first thing is identifying the area that you want to support. I always say surveys are your friend. Doesn’t need to be fancy, but you can get great survey platforms and ask people, “What is it that you’re struggling with?”
Meg Blair:
Once you’ve identified the trends in your company, then you can start to figure out, what do we do? It comes to what do you do. Benefit programs are fantastic these days. There’s a ton of different options. The more flexible you can make those programs that better. Things like healthcare spending accounts, where people can choose where they want to focus the funds is great, but that’s not always a reality for every company, even for us. We are, I would say, a teenager-level company now. We are moving past startup and really into scaling mode, and so as you grow your benefit programs and perks have to grow with you, but they have to grow in a way that is what your employees want. I think it’s about, as I said, identifying where people want help and then exploring different creative options.
Gerry:
I love the ideas of surveys because first of all, as a small business, I do also worry a lot about the business. I worry about my team, but I do tell them about it. That’s one thing that I try to do. I try to be transparent. I don’t want to worry them about it, but I tell them about what I’m thinking, so my 3:00 wake-ups, which everyone I hope has, you wake up and you have all these thoughts in your head. I like the idea of surveys because that is a way to get to understand. How do I adapt that to a smaller team? I think it’s great with a company of 350 people such as yours. We do a survey. We can see that 70% are worried about their family, so you would then target things that would help their family. Smaller companies of five, 10, 15, 20, how would you adapt? Would you still do a survey? How would you adapt to it? What could you do?
Meg Blair:
It completely depends on the level of trust that you have in the organization. With surveys, it’s great with larger groups because you can have anonymized results and you can see trends across different departments, but the most important thing regardless of the size of your company is that people have an outlet to talk about what they’re concerned about, whether that is an HR person, whether that is your CEO, whether it is really anybody across the company, but the company has to show that they are interested in hearing what people have to say, regardless of how ugly it might be. The company needs to be open and there has to be a source of trust. When that is the case, then you don’t even need surveys, you can have conversations. It’s simply about creating that transparent trusting environment.
Gerry:
Again, I reflect on what many small businesses have done during COVID is just to keep business as usual, keep the lights on. Then jumping into remote, the first thing you do is everyone goes on Zoom, everyone goes on Microsoft Teams or some way or shape and they meet and they talk about the work they need to do. I think that part of business has adapted well. People are functioning, it’s productive. I think what is lost is what you just described is that one-on-one conversation that you can have by just sharing how you’re feeling, because as a group, you’re unlikely to share it. You’re not going to say “I’m worried about whatever” in a team environment, but only when you have these one-to-one or these touch bases or whatever you want to call it is your opportunity to say, “Hey, how’s it going? How are we doing today?” Very good tip on that in terms of keeping it one-to-one because we’ve been so focused on getting the job done and we assume that the group meeting is that one-to-one and it’s not. It’s not.
Gerry:
Final question to you in terms of I was just talking about remote workplaces. As much as we are saying how productive it is, how successful we are at moving to remote, you were talking about something. I don’t want to give it away. What’s lacking with remote work?
Meg Blair:
Yeah, so this came to me, actually, after a mental health survey that we launched a few months ago and the trend that came out was people missed what we have dubbed “the spontaneity of human connection.” When you’re in the office, you go get a coffee, you’re going into the kitchen. You don’t know who’s going to be in the kitchen and you end up having these off-the-cuff casual conversations with people from across the business from everybody, every department.
Meg Blair:
That’s what’s missing because right now we set meetings, we have an agenda. We are very productive, but we don’t have that casual, spontaneous connection, and so one of the things that we launched at the past few months is something that we call “virtual water cooler chats.” What that is is I set an open invitation for anyone in the company. They can join a Zoom meeting, everybody’s got their video on, and then I break people out into random breakout groups, so you don’t know who’s going to be in that meeting and people, I give them topics to talk about, whether it is, “Have you started your Christmas shopping yet?” because I’m nowhere near, I don’t even know how I do this in a virtual world, any kind of topic. Then people are able to just chat like they were in the office. It has been so incredible because people are talking to people they don’t normally see or talk to. It turns into new work projects, actually, but it also gives people a chance just to take a moment and connect. It has been so wonderful. To find a way to do something like that in your organization is something I really highly recommend.
Gerry:
I would imagine, not that you would listen in on these breakout rooms, but I would imagine it’s probably not conversations about work, is it?
Meg Blair:
No, it’s not. It’s about how people are feeling, what they’re binging on Netflix, or how they have completely gone off their diet during the pandemic and trying to get back on it.
Gerry:
Make sure they don’t go to Catherine’s doctor who tells her that she needs to lose three pounds.
Meg Blair: Exactly.
Gerry:
All right, Meg, lots of great information. Again, for all our listeners, we’re going to have both yours and Catherine’s website on our posts to find out more. I’m sure we’re going to continue talking forever because this is such a, not only is it a relevant topic and not only as an important topic, but it is one that we really should start thinking about because it’s impacting all of us.
Gerry:
2021 is around the corner, so I’m going to begin with you and then I’m going to go back to Catherine. 2021, New Year’s resolution. Not everyone makes New Year’s resolution, but I think that, you know what, we’re so fed up with 2020, we’re so welcoming 2021, why not make a New Year’s resolution? In terms of self-awareness, self-wellness, what should my New Year resolution be, or what should I consider as making my New Year’s resolution? Meg, I’ll begin with you.
Meg Blair:
I would say to focus on improving the wellness of those around you. Altruism gives such a great mood boost in itself, but it’s also really easy to make small gestures that can change someone’s mindset around you, so I would say focus on improving the wellness of those around you.
Gerry:
Excellent. Thank you very much, Meg. Catherine, I jump back to you. You’ve been listening. First of all, let me just ask you, before you give me your New Year’s resolution, as you’re hearing Meg talk about what they’re doing, the support MindBeacon is giving, how do you feel about it? What comes to your mind?
Catherine Osborne:
Well, I love it. One of the reasons that I love it is I’ve been using them as a great referral source. I sometimes get clients who need something different than I can offer them and the fact that I have this great source that I know a little bit about now, and it’s free for people in Ontario, I just love that it’s out there and that it’s something that is so easy. People don’t need to leave their home and it’s available for them, so yay, Meg.
Gerry:
Amazing. I mean, really, yay, Meg, and yay, Catherine, as well. What should my New Year’s resolution be, Catherine, in terms of the self-care mindset or self-care?
Catherine Osborne:
The self-care state of mind. Gerry, one thing I know about you is that you are definitely interested in physical fitness and as long as I’ve known you, you’ve always been a runner and you work out and you exercise and you look after that body of yours, so as a New Year’s resolution, I think something to consider is to mind the mind.
Gerry:
Hmm. Mind the mind.
Catherine Osborne:
Yeah, a lot of what we talked about today, it’s self-care of the mind as much as it is in the body, so for 2021, I think it’s something that we can all consider is to mind the mind.
Gerry:
Excellent. Catherine, Meg, it’s been, first of all, most enjoyable chatting with you both and learning more about what you do and how you’re helping and how you’re helping us think through some of this. There are so many lessons. One thing I take away in terms of learning how to process what I’m feeling is looking at how I’m feeling as data, identifying what I’m feeling versus being overwhelmed by it. Look at it as data. It’s an information, it’s a fact. What is this fact telling me? What do I need to do with this fact and how do I respond to the fact? I think once you are able to detach that, it makes it a lot easier to manage, so I thank you for that.
Gerry:
I want to leave you both and our listeners with something I saw yesterday. I thought it was so appropriate for what we’re talking about today. It starts off with it’s a holiday wishlist, okay? It says “holiday wishlist” and it’s “Less gifts, more memories. Less busyness, more peace. Less stress, more joy. Less chaos, more calm. Less excess, more gratitude.” I thought that would be a perfect way to tie up. Thank you so much for being with us today. I hope we can chat again.
Catherine Osborne:
Thank you, Gerry. It was a pleasure.
Meg Blair:
Thank you for having me.
Gerry:
You’re listening to a GLINC Outside the Box podcast.
